Curse

Cryshal · Aug 20, 2011, 10:46 AM // 10:46

These are harder quests and I can't do the final Vanguard and Dwarf quests. I tried the Winds of Change and it too was too hard. The only way to get through the hordes of enemies is to kill a couple, respawn, kill a couple, repeat until they are dead. Then you are at -60% and expected to kill the final boss.

Frankly, I'm very disappointed. I know a lot of players do like the harder quests and do manage to find ways to do them. I find it tedious. I do like Guild Wars, and still continue to adventure, but I would like to be a better player. I have read guides, I've gone through all the tips, changing heroes, changing skills, getting more runes, etc. I see players saying you need 600 skill points for your heroes, but I have no idea how they do that.

I started Winds of Change with my Ritualist, bad move. I can't use the spirits because the enemies steal them. It's just all discouraging.

Elfblade · Aug 20, 2011, 11:04 AM // 11:04

are you using heroes? if so maybe it helps if you post your builds? are you using correct tactics like pulling and balling so that you only fight one group at the time. Some quests in WOC can be hard if you do not run a decent build on you and your heroes. You have 200 skill points per hero and you can use 7 heroes ( 600 is impossible). You dont need the best runes to complete the content.

For now post your team build and maybe explain the tactics you use.

Arduin · Aug 20, 2011, 11:57 AM // 11:57

As already been explained to you, the 600 people are talking about is 600 hp, not armor or skill points:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryshal

People say to have heroes with 600armor. How do you get that high? If I have to pay, I can't afford it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

I'll assume that's actually 600 health. You can use a combination of Survivor insignia, Vigor and Vitae runes, and weapon and offhand health upgrades. Base health at level 20 is 480, so an additional 120 would be required for 600.

That said, you already have a thread on the final EotN quests, have you already taken a look at the suggestions posted there?

Iuris · Aug 20, 2011, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Ayyyy, don't just give up! Kryta and Cantha need you! It is true, however, that the WiK and WoC groups are quite a bit more difficult than the ones you've met up till now. Still, normal mode at least you should be able to do quite well.

I guarantee you that a set of proper builds WILL let your heroes kill all enemies on their own, even with you AFK.

Tell us what heroes and builds you use, so we can see where there's room for improvement.

Venganza · Aug 20, 2011, 12:45 PM // 12:45

If you PM me with your IGN, I would be happy to contact you in-game and lend a hand or provide some advice if you like.

Incidentally I did WoC on my Rt in both normal and hard mode (most HM I did with heroes only) and had little dificulty.

You are correct some of the foes can devastate spirits, however this is not uncommon, the unded in CoF can wipe spirits in seconds. It all comes to being aware of initial enemy spikes and recasting spirits as needed at appropriate distance while properly managing energy.

Don't lose heart, if something is too easy to do where is the challenge?

Nereyda Shoaal · Aug 20, 2011, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I'm adding Cantha to that too.

I've been trying to VQ Minister's Cho Estate for over an hour and finally hit Alt+F4 because I couldn't stand it anymore.
To put it in other words... since the WoC and mob update I'm finding it basicaly impossible to VQ this area. I have tried pretty much everything with no effect.
Stuck on 32/33 in Cantha now

Zebideedee · Aug 20, 2011, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Nereyda if WoC is like WiK then if you abandon the WoC quests the mobs in Minister Cho's should return to the normal pre-WoC ones. Then after you vanq. it go get the WoC quest again.

Gli · Aug 20, 2011, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebideedee

Nereyda if WoC is like WiK then if you abandon the WoC quests the mobs in Minister Cho's should return to the normal pre-WoC ones. Then after you vanq. it go get the WoC quest again.

Unfortunately, it isn't like WiK. After doing the Rescue at Minister Cho's quest, the spawns in that area change and there's currently no way to get back the originals. Even joining up with someone who hasn't started WoC yet doesn't help.

cruzer · Aug 20, 2011, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

I guarantee you that a set of proper builds WILL let your heroes kill all enemies on their own, even with you AFK.

I agree. It is not that hard if you have good builds and good combinations of heros.
3 discord necros
panic mezmer
ineptitude mezmer
SoS Rit
SoGM Rit
I find with this I can do nothing and my heros will kill almost any mob in the game. The only place I have any real trouble is in DOA. My heroes have good runes and weapons but not perfect.

drkn · Aug 20, 2011, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Unfortunately, it isn't like WiK. After doing the Rescue at Minister Cho's quest, the spawns in that area change and there's currently no way to get back the originals. Even joining up with someone who hasn't started WoC yet doesn't help.

Possibly this will change when WoC is finished, hopefully quite soon.

WiK and WoC, as the Beyond content, are meant to be harder than the normal campaigns. If you haven't beaten EotN yet, and more so have trouble with it in normal mode, you should reiterate your gameplay and builds, and focus on dealing with the easier things first.

Cryshal · Aug 20, 2011, 11:58 PM // 23:58

You players amaze me with your abilities. You think it's simple, from what you say, and yet it isn't for me.

Useless to post my heroes or builds since, as I said, I change them out over and over trying to find a good group for a quest. I have my heroes runed as best I can. I have Jora, Koss, Master of Whispers, Vekk, Jehd, Tahlkora, Ogden, MOX, one other Necro, Paragon and two Rangers. My EotN, main character, is Ranger. My Factions character is Ritualist, and my Nightfall character is Paragon.

I have as many skills as I could find. I don't have Pain Inverter, can't get it. I did read my post on EotN and tried the tips from the replies. From what I see with the final quests is that you need to do them enough times to understand what's going on, what you need to do. And for me that means hours. After I've tried three times, I'm too frustrated to continue. The Vanguard isn't hard to get to, but so much going on and I'm lost there. The Dwarf quest has the boss at the end who kills you just by looking at you. You can't use the heroes there. To get the kegs you have to run all the way back to the Dwarves?

Winds of Change. My Ritualist can't use spirits. They are used against me. Or immediately killed. Too many high level enemies swarm me. That I guess is my main complaint about the harder quests. My heroes and I are level 20, and the swarms of enemies are level 28. It doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks to all who have replied. I guess my final answer is just that I'm not going to finish EotN, nor do Winds of Change or War in Kryta. I hope GW2 will be different. I will have a guild, so perhaps together we will be able to do the harder quests, and I assume there will be harder.

I also don't have Discord, can't get it.

----------

For cruzor: I can guess at panic and ineptitude, but what are SoS and SoGM?

Also, do you use all heroes or mix in mercenaries to get two or three of any one class?

Elfblade · Aug 21, 2011, 12:12 AM // 00:12

i would refrain from using discord, as far as i can guess your trouble lies mostly at tactics. if you want i can help you in game. for what i now suggest is to finish EOTN first before you move on to Wik or WoC. (also you can get the xandra(ritualist) and razah(can be changed into any primary proffession) they are not hard to get (at least xandra but razah can be a tad more difficult).

I certainly think it is not impossible for you to finish EOTN and beyond content. You finished nightfall, which certainly is not easy in the realm of torment.

Cryshal · Aug 21, 2011, 12:18 AM // 00:18

What is strange is I finished Nightfall but none of the Realm of Torment is showing up on my map, beyond Gate of Destruction.

Katastroff · Aug 21, 2011, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryshal

Winds of Change. My Ritualist can't use spirits. They are used against me. Or immediately killed. Too many high level enemies swarm me. That I guess is my main complaint about the harder quests. My heroes and I are level 20, and the swarms of enemies are level 28. It doesn't make sense to me.

Armor of Unfeeling

Spiritleech Aura

I did all those quest as R/Rt running:

3 disco necro (2 are MM) all 3 of them also heal
1 Panic mes
1 Emo prot
1 Ele Order
1 Either a Para (buffer) or Ineptitude mes

The Estate was pretty stiff the first few times, but i did manage it with 2 necros and 1 Mes. ( must admit it added a few points to my sweet tooth title

)

About being swarmed, Flagging and using a long bow is recommended

Beliarchia Targon · Aug 21, 2011, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryshal

I don't have Pain Inverter, can't get it.

Why can't you get it? Go to Kerrsh in Tarnished Haven, do his quest chain. It's a little time consuming but sooo worth it. I seriously regretted not doing it sooner than I did.

Flameseeker · Aug 21, 2011, 05:53 AM // 05:53

SoS - Signet of Spirits
SoGM - Signet of ghostly might

I can assure you that you can get legendary guardian/vanquisher or any other PVE title with no hero runed and their crappy starter weapons. Even WiK and WoC are doable,at least in NM, that way.
Since you're a Rit you're the best SoS since you can just heal over and over your spirits with summon spirits. And even if they get destroyed you should be able to replace them timely.
With that build you can use the spirits to bodyblock any melee mobs by building a spirit wall, but also quickly save them from aoe by summoning them.

Discord really is the easiest way to go, just bring some conditions and hexes with yourself and the heroes will do everything for you. WiK and WoC will be more troublesome since they were designed to counter such gimmicks, but they'll still work but a little less effective. (Not bothered with HM WoC but I guess it would be insane with my kind of hero setup)

From my understanding you don't have enough practice in gw play-style.
For general vanquish and missions you can almost overagro the entire map and still not die (save few exceptions).
For WiK, WoC and those exceptions a longbow for pulling the groups away, and sometimes pulling monsters apart from their own groups, are the key to quickly deal with the area.

You should actually start by unlocking several skills and, if you have the money, capture all elites. That way you'll have an easier time modifying your builds for anything that you might need.

And you'll also need some patience. Most of us are giving you wisdom from 6 years of gameplay so you shouldn't waste the advices, but use them to improve yourself.
You can't expect to just breeze through an area or even not having to repeat it a few times. You probably breezed through prophecies campaign (or if you didn't you'll probably will most of it), but a few years back we had to repeat THK or Hell's Precipice enough times to make us sick of the game. Not mentioning the insane hours of waiting for monks.

Hope you really have the patience for my wall of text, but as you improve you'll notice that what you now find insane will soon just be easy enough to do it without actually put much effort.

Elfblade · Aug 21, 2011, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flameseeker

Since you're a Rit you're the best SoS since you can just heal over and over your spirits with summon spirits. And even if they get destroyed you should be able to replace them timely.

for a player rit the sogm would be better so you can time the sogm at better moments than the hero can. Sos is handled fine by a hero and is not really in need of summon spirits where as a sogm it can be more useful. (sos gives you more skill slots though)

for a new player i dont think discord is the way to go as it learns you absolutely nothing about how to play the game its just c-spacing. I am not saying he should go micro heavy but a build like discord is of no value to him.

note: i think he got that people can beat the game with empty skill bars, i dont think it is needed to emphasize on what is possible but rather give suggestions.

Spiritz · Aug 21, 2011, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Cryshal - The thing about gw is that its level of difficulty affects ppl`s gameplay and some its easy and some its hard.No one is calling you a bad player - remember the saying your as strong as your weakest link.
You can be a damn gd player but if your heros are not setup correctly with either weapons/runes/skill bars then that will really affect you.

Quite a lot of us have probably done all campaigns and eotn quite a few times ( only done prophs once myself as i prefer the other campaigns/eotn.
Dont sit back and think "arghh this is impossible" - my sin was a prime example , she had factionss done but i went kurz route and ignored the lux area.Why did i do that ? - because i had it in my head that gayla hatchery was going to be a pain to do and so i left it for almost a yr.When i did gayla with a guildie - it wasnt as bad as what i thought and since then ive done it on multiple chrs.

Just keep at it - check on guru / gwpvx.com for builds , tips etc , infact if you get stuck then make a new post in right section with your hero builds listed and the mission/quest your having probs with as that way we can see what builds are used and offer advice

Cryshal · Aug 21, 2011, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Thanks all for your tips. I will copy and save and study.

My small guild is up to my quests now in EotN and we did Heart of the Shiverpeaks last night. The first one through was a disaster, so the group took another look at their skills to decide what would work better. The second run through really surprised us. We killed the worm boss instantly, that is within two minutes. We will have to discuss it to see what we think worked.

Iuris · Aug 21, 2011, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryshal

You players amaze me with your abilities. You think it's simple, from what you say, and yet it isn't for me.

We have been playing the game for years. OF course we, by now, use only the most overpowered builds and find most things easy. But don't worry, at least some of us still remember that not everyone is a hoary old veteran. Some even remember that you need a lot of effort to just unlock the key skills before you have them pre-unlocked.

Quote:

Useless to post my heroes or builds since, as I said, I change them out over and over trying to find a good group for a quest. I have my heroes runed as best I can. I have Jora, Koss, Master of Whispers, Vekk, Jehd, Tahlkora, Ogden, MOX, one other Necro, Paragon and two Rangers. My EotN, main character, is Ranger. My Factions character is Ritualist, and my Nightfall character is Paragon.

Sounds too mixed. You'll have to focus your builds' efforts. If you go for physical attackers, you'll need some physical support (like a necromancer with Barbs and Mark of Pain, possibly a dedicated "orders" caster.). Otherwise, caster teams generally have to be focused along a specific principle, like the Discord teams (Everyone has the elite Discord, which does a lot of single target damage, but doesn't work unless the enemy is under a condition and a hex - so the team brings a lot of those)

Quote:

I have as many skills as I could find. I don't have Pain Inverter, can't get it. I did read my post on EotN and tried the tips from the replies. From what I see with the final quests is that you need to do them enough times to understand what's going on, what you need to do. And for me that means hours. After I've tried three times, I'm too frustrated to continue. The Vanguard isn't hard to get to, but so much going on and I'm lost there. The Dwarf quest has the boss at the end who kills you just by looking at you. You can't use the heroes there. To get the kegs you have to run all the way back to the Dwarves?

Ah yes, the Heart of the Shiverpeaks. You'd really benefit from bringing along Shelter, to keep your party alive. I know how you feel.

Quote:

Winds of Change. My Ritualist can't use spirits. They are used against me. Or immediately killed. Too many high level enemies swarm me. That I guess is my main complaint about the harder quests. My heroes and I are level 20, and the swarms of enemies are level 28. It doesn't make sense to me.

I don't remember a skill capable of reliably stealing a spirit, and given that the enemy builds change, it'd only be a problem with a few groups. They may use the same spirits as you, but that's where human superior intelligence comes in - retreat out of range

Quote:

Thanks to all who have replied. I guess my final answer is just that I'm not going to finish EotN, nor do Winds of Change or War in Kryta. I hope GW2 will be different. I will have a guild, so perhaps together we will be able to do the harder quests, and I assume there will be harder.

Well, if you give up, there's nothing we can do. But... many other players got past what you've got trouble with in the past.

Quote:

I also don't have Discord, can't get it.

Never used it in my life, and I still managed to get things done.

Quote:

For cruzor: I can guess at panic and ineptitude, but what are SoS and SoGM?

SoS: Signet of spirits elite skill, captured in Echovald region of Kurzick lands. It summons three attack spirits and is commonly found on a ritualist dedicated to spamming many attack spirits. This ritualist provides heavy long term firepower an can also bring Shadowsong and Disenchantment spirits to deal with physical attackers and protective enchantments. Handily, it can be put on any caster hero, so a ritualist hero is not needed.

SoGM: Signet of ghostly might, an elite signet that makes all allied spirits attack faster and do more damage. If you've already got many spirits around, this can make them 50% more aggressive - that's basic team building.

Quote:

Also, do you use all heroes or mix in mercenaries to get two or three of any one class?

Nowadays, 7 heroes is the norm. But before that update, everyone had to combine 3 heroes with 4 henchmen, and we still made it.